Big Beautiful Bill or Big Bundle of Bull?

Analyzing the 'One Big Beautiful Bill' and Its Impact

In this episode of the What's Going On podcast, hosts Thomas Corley, Keith Pickens, and Mike Miller delve into the effects and controversies surrounding the 'One Big Beautiful Bill' recently signed into law by President Donald J. Trump. The hosts discuss the bill's provisions, including changes to the child tax credit, standard deductions, and its anticipated impact on Medicaid and SNAP. They also cover broader issues like immigration, border security, and clean energy policies. Tune in to hear their insights, opinions, and some startling projections about the future.

Transcript

0:01

In this episode of What's Going On podcast, the usual weekly feature segments overlapped. We also had a recording issue in our discussion of Save the Children, so we'll pick that segment back up next week. Listen as we cover some key components of the big beautiful bill, and of course, like other episodes, we discuss our disdain for the current administration. I'm Thomas Corley with Keith Pickens and Mike Miller. This is the What's Going On podcast. Thank you for listening.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 0:30

Hey, Keith Pickens,

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 0:31

What's going on, tc?

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 0:33

not much. What's going on, Mike Miller?

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 0:36

Hello, sir Sirs.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 0:38

Hey, Mike. What's going on, man?

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 0:40

How's it going

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 0:41

it's a good day in the neighborhood, my friend.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 0:43

it is. Absolutely.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 0:44

doubt.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 0:45

I guess that's questionable, Keith.'cause as of July 4th, not only did we celebrate independence, and it was 15 days after Juneteenth, Bill, the big beautiful bill was signed, Or as they call it, the one big beautiful bill, OBBB was signed

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 1:01

or

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 1:01

the

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 1:02

on where you stand, the big ugly bill.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 1:06

Right.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 1:07

Or it could be called a big bundle of bull. I mean, you can call it a whole lot, if you wanna stick with the B, B, B, it's a big bundle of bull and I'll leave

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 1:15

Triple

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 1:15

there.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 1:16

Right.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 1:17

right?

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 1:17

Well, one thing is, it's not the Better Business Bureau, right?

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 1:22

by no means or stretched the imagination but just to take a little bit of the edge off. When they voted it in, it came out as the Tax and Jobs Act, so that's the official name.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 1:34

Oh, is it? Oh, I thought this big.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 1:36

in as a, they didn't let it go in as that. It,

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 1:39

oh yeah.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 1:40

It was voted on, and it's gonna probably be forever be known as that. The official name is the Tax Cutting Jobs Act.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 1:46

Oh, okay. All right. Because I,

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 1:48

sir.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 1:49

I had to go to AI to get an idea of what was going on and have it summarized for me. So we're gonna try to work from that and see what we agree with and what we don't agree with.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 2:00

Okay, that's good for me'cause I'm far from an expert on this topic. Like obviously I got some personal feelings as I'm sure we all do, but In that package to uncover. And so I don't know how much justice we can do,

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 2:12

right.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 2:12

barber barbershop talk

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 2:14

Yeah,

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 2:14

None of us are gonna be fact check.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 2:16

exactly.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 2:17

real time anyway.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 2:18

Exactly. Yeah. And the other thing I did too at the end I asked it how it would impact Michiganders'cause I was curious what it would do for that. It's not much over, what they already do nationally, but

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 2:32

Okay.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 2:33

we have manufacturing here, we went into a little bit of detail for that. Yeah.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 2:37

Offer it up bru.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 2:38

All right. Let me go back to when I just asked to update, okay, so as of Monday, July 7th, the one big beautiful bill also referred to as the one Big Beautiful Bill Act, or simply the big beautiful bill, has officially passed both the House and the Senate and has been signed into law by President Donald J. Trump. The signed ceremony took place July 4th, 2025. Here are some of the additional insights and clarification current status and key confirmations sign into law, this is most significant. Independent analysis. Yes, sir. So here we go. Independent analysis. And I saw that it was like on M-S-N-B-C, they had five independent different ones and it definitely says something totally different what the White House was saying. So anyway, independent analysis such as those from the tax foundation and factcheck.org consistently projected that the bill would significantly increase the federal deficit over the next decade. Estimates range from 3 trillion to 3.4 trillion over 10 years, from 2025 to 20 20, 34 on a dynamic basis, even accounting for projected economic growth and spending cuts. The White House, however, has stated that the bill will reduce the deficit by 1.4 trillion, a difference that stems from how expiring tax cuts are accounted for. So specific provisions and clarification. The first thing they got here is the child tax credit. CTC define a bill permanently increases the CTC from 2000 to 2200 per qualified child with Index to inflation. However, the refundable portion of the credit is also indexed to inflation meaning lower income houses may not see a large credit.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 4:24

I can take good buddy of mine put it very bluntly. He said it's calculus malarkey.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 4:32

Ah, I like that.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 4:35

it. Calculus

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 4:36

that. Yeah. Yeah.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 4:38

Yeah.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 4:39

without the calculus piece, it's a bunch of malarkey.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 4:42

Yeah, that's malarkey.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 4:44

Yeah.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 4:45

bottom

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 4:45

on his face, we know what it does

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 4:49

it's bunch of malarkey. You're not going to have they didn't extend the cut enough like Tom said, to really help, the Americans that need the most help And extending the credit from 2000 to 2200. That is not, come on, man. Come on man. Just gonna leave it at

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 5:12

Yeah.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 5:12

Yeah.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 5:13

I am gonna leave it at that.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 5:15

But

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 5:15

standard deductions. We can all appreciate this one. The standard deductions will be increased for certain taxpayers from 2025 through 2028, so that means temporary, right? We proposed amounts of 16,000 for single filers, 24,000 for heads of household and 32,000 for married joint followers. The bill also includes a one-time permanent boost of$750 or$1,500 for couples to a standard deduction begin for tax payable for 2025. Now, I don't no longer itemize because I can never meet those numbers.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 5:51

It's all slight of hand. To your point, yes. It's going to the standard deductions, they made it more difficult in terms of itemization. Although I, from what I understand, they're bringing back credits for car loan interest. But all of it in a nutshell is slight of hand because they give, but in three years they take away. Whatever you see it'll be gone in three years and we know how fast three years go by.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 6:19

right.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 6:19

And

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 6:19

It's gonna be more painful when it's taken away. Actually, it's good to get a break, I want it over a permanent period of time. Not a year, two years, or three years.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 6:29

Right.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 6:29

But to your point, it's not,

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 6:31

right?

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 6:32

yeah, it's not going right. Just like the millionaires, what they're getting is permanent or the billionaires,

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 6:37

I

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 6:37

what they're getting is permanent. Yeah, Tom, I agree. When you look at your own situation and you say, you know what, I itemize doesn't add up, so I end up using the standard deduction. What they're doing is good for some and not for many. There are some things in this bill, that are beneficial. for the most part, just from a generalization, we all know it's like Robin Hood reverse, right? Given to the rich and taken from the poor. That's the part that bears on me. Because whether or not it impacts me on an individual level, I'm more concerned about the overall populace, and how many people it's gonna infect. And we're just talking about one facet. I know you're gonna look at different facets. You're talking about the impact on income and taxes and so forth, but there's also other portions that are impacted that we know,

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 7:30

Medicaid and Snap, which is probably the biggest thing that you know is as a generalization. The bill imposes 80 hour per month work requirements on able body adults receiving Medicaid ages 19 to 64 with some exemptions for parents. It also significantly cuts federal funding for Medicaid with some analysis suggesting it could be led to nearly$1 trillion in cuts and potentially strip millions of Americans of health insurance coverage by 2034. Then for the SNAP portion, existing work rules are applied to more beneficiaries. Starting October, 2027, most states will be required to pay between 5% and 50% of the cost of SNAP benefits. A shift of financial burden from federal to state governments states will also be responsible for 75% of administrative costs up from 50%. Now, that was one of the things too that I wanted to mention before I started reading that was that, how the implementation or the timeline for the implementation for all this so happens to be after the midterms when some of these things go into effect, which when people go to the ballots, they're not gonna be focused on that because that's not gonna, something's immediate impacting them. I love it, Mike, go ahead. Bring it on.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 8:51

Hey, Mike, before you do hold your thought, I just want to add something to what Tom said when he began the conversation around and, on Snap. I was listening to Bernie Sanders and quite specifically what he said, was there gonna be 16 million people off of insurance. By slashing 1.1 trillion, it's gonna impact Medicaid and the Affordable Care Act. Not to mention that those people will be required to pay a$35 copay for any Medicaid recipients, which I guess wasn't in play before. As a result, it's projected that 50,000 Americans will die yearly unnecessarily because of these cuts. So I just wanted to put that out there in terms of the impact and some actual numbers around how many people it's gonna impact. And that's based on information that Bernie Sanders shared?

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 9:43

He's correct. You know that 80 hours per month work requirement if unable to work now, if you're in that situation Where you're physically unable to work, even if, you can't work 80 hours a month. You are in that age bracket where it is required. So that means that you are not gonna. for Medicaid,

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 10:12

Right.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 10:14

If you can work 80 hours a month, chances are you're gonna make enough money that you won't qualify for Medicaid. So, wow. Is that not a catch 22?

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 10:29

right.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 10:30

Basically that's what Bernie Sanders is, right? People Won't, they can't qualify because law says that they have to work X amount, but they can't do that for whatever reason. And, that's what it's gonna be.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 10:45

Built in exemptions though? Because if the economy is such that you can't get a job, then you still qualify.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 10:51

I don't know. I doubt that these fascists would put in any exemptions.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 10:56

But the thing that you said, Keith, that caught me off guard because all the stuff that I looked at and read, no one mentioned the deaths, so that's insightful.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 11:08

Yeah. That's the option.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 11:10

Exactly.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 11:10

projection

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 11:12

that's

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 11:13

and That

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 11:15

a year?

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 11:15

50,000 a year unnecessarily.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 11:17

So that's 50,000 a year that's paid into Social Security. At some point, you know that you're not gonna have to take care of. You understand There you I get it. Okay.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 11:29

What's next

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 11:29

all right.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 11:30

I know you talked about Snap

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 11:31

yeah.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 11:32

Oh,

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 11:32

Obviously that's significant because, he also indicated, the impact that would have on our children, the millions of children who won't be able to get a meal, which impacts their ability to focus while they're in school.'cause kids who are hungry, they're not thinking about lesson, per se.'cause they're hungry. They're thinking about eating and where their next meal is coming from. And he talked about that being wiped out and 350 billion cut to education,

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 12:00

That's the

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 12:01

350 billion cuts to education.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 12:05

While they put in provision that now people who pay for private education get a tax deduction or credit right? For the tuition. People that can already afford anything in the world and you're just giving them more, it's almost like the government is paying rich people to be rich. You understand?

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 12:28

Basically.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 12:29

Bill represents the biggest transfer of wealth.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 12:32

For sure.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 12:33

from the poor and middle class to the very wealthy that has ever existed. I just don't understand why a convicted felon who was convicted of fraud was given another$3 trillion. Access to the treasury like that, That is, this is crazy.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 12:58

Yeah.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 12:59

don't understand why people don't up. But I didn't know it was as bad. Now I'm just gonna leave it at that. I did know that this many people were this

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 13:12

Right.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 13:14

I didn't know it had gotten to this point people just don't know. Our country has always applauded thieves look at the Al Capone days, everybody loved Capone. They loved all that gangster era. It was romanticized

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 13:28

Yeah,

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 13:29

Was it romanticized during that time period or,

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 13:33

But for some people for others,

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 13:35

yeah.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 13:35

For most, no, but

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 13:37

Promoting fear and chaos.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 13:40

Correct.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 13:41

Yeah.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 13:41

they were, you see what the outcome was.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 13:44

Yeah.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 13:44

I don't understand. Americans seem to like thieves and I just, I don't get it, I'm just gonna

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 13:51

all right,

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 13:51

it alone.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 13:51

right

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 13:52

I think it's.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 13:54

So the Medicaid programs are ran by the states already, right? Basically what we're talking about here is reporting documentation to the federal government in order for them to release funds to the states to pay for these programs. I'm gonna be the guy who's opposite of you two, I guess at some point, Who's gonna say, okay, so the states are already running these programs, so either they're gonna, continue to operate efficiently, the way they do now by documenting and having people report information or, they're gonna make it as, because one of the things they were saying, it was gonna be because of the requirements or documentations they were gonna require to prove themselves is gonna be very difficult for people who are disabled, who can't get to an office or whatever the case may be. The programs are run by the state and the state is all for the programs they understand that if they don't get these things taken care of, they're gonna lose funding. The onus is on them to make it work. I guess that's my point. And it's not necessarily the federal government who's, required to have these allocation of these funds. They're just going to allocate whatever the state says they need. But the federal government is saying, prove to me that you need this. I just don't see operationally. What's the difference

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 15:07

it's, like Mike said, it's just gonna be more difficult for people to access the information to get, documentation And you can always change the rules to make things much more difficult. This is well thought out, Tom, this isn't just a matter of let's throw the ball back to the states if I've got the money and I'm allocating money to you, but now I'm changing the rules on you, yeah, the states are running it, but they still rely on the government to subsidize it because that money is not coming out of the state coffers. So if you're gonna make it nearly difficult or almost impossible in some cases for folks to get to the money or for the states to, because you're gonna mandate the states have certain requirements

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 15:50

right.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 15:51

requirements can't be fulfilled and it's already projected, many people are going to lose out. I think even if those projections fall short, it's still gonna be a significant number. The other side of that coin, if that's a conservative number and there are more people, but the fact of the matter is, yes, the states are the ones who administer the program, but. Not without this financial support of the federal government. But you don't see that what you're saying is you don't see that as like, what's the issue? So now you gotta do a different dance or just do a different dance and you'll qualify.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 16:25

Not, no, not the

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 16:26

if it

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 16:26

individuals. I'm just saying the state would have to do what they have to do to make sure people who are on the roads don't fall off the roads and streamline the process. I guess that's what I'm saying, that the state needs to streamline the process,

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 16:40

interest to

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 16:40

individuals.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 16:41

the state I know the state's not corralling people

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 16:44

Both.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 16:45

they're eligible for these programs. That's their responsibility.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 16:49

Requirement for a person that can't work. just gonna remove them from the roles you understand.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 16:57

No, I don't.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 16:59

Okay.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 17:00

If they're already qualified where they're unable to do the 80 hours, they're already on the rolls. All right. So, but they

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 17:09

May be able to do that,

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 17:11

Okay.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 17:11

most won't. And the ones that will be able to do it, like the projections, say you working 80 hours a month, roughly, 20 hours a week.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 17:24

That's part-time

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 17:25

part-time and you may end up not qualifying

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 17:28

catch 22.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 17:29

yeah. So for the people that are able to do it, that's fine. But again, the people that are unable to, that's the difference. That are unable to work the eight hours a month are gonna fall out no matter what the state does. A person is in that age bracket, and if there are any exemptions, they don't meet those exemptions but are still unable to work, they're just gonna fall off the rolls.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 17:52

I don't see that happening. If you're already on Medicaid and you're not working and you're not able to work, I don't see the change in that individual or that household. I see the change only for, and when I'm thinking through this, I'm thinking about the knucklehead cousins I have Collecting these benefits, who are able bodied And can do more than 20 hours where they just, they got it fixed so well that they got everything covered.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 18:18

Yes. Some

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 18:19

I mean, that's

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 18:21

they're very AP at using the system,

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 18:23

yeah.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 18:24

It,

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 18:25

yes.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 18:25

my, it's so, it's not so many people That it's requiring so many changes in law to go after a small percentage of people. You know what I

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 18:42

That I do. Yeah. You may be right in regards to the percentage.'cause when they talk about fraud is like 1%, 2%, no more than 3%. And you're chasing after fraud. Like it's a big number.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 18:52

And yet

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 18:53

what

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 18:53

The military has increased their budget by 15%. And we know there's a lot of fraud there. We all know there are people that cheat the system.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 19:00

Yeah.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 19:01

Makes it bad for everybody else. And that part is fraud. And so going at fraud is the right thing to do. The government is bloated. But not at the expense of making it tougher for people who genuinely need it. And, to Mike's point, if you get to that threshold your income is beyond, but barely, you're still more or less indigent, then what is it all for? Yeah, I'm working more hours, but now I still can't qualify for Medicaid because I'm making, a little bit over the, threshold I don't know what it is, I'll be honest, but I just think that all the prognosticators are throwing out these numbers for a reason. Some of it is fraud. And I do agree if there's a way to do away with fraud or eliminate fraud altogether then so be it. but just don't put the burden on the back of the other people who are at least able, at the end of the day, like I said, it's really a matter of. Not stealing, taken from the poor and given to the rich. And like Mike said, do the rich really need more? How many billions do you really need?

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 20:04

Yeah. They should be taxed just like we are taxed. If they're taxed at the same level we are, it is not going to affect the day on the yacht. It's not going to affect the day on the private jet. It is not going affect, you know, the month in Ibiza, whatever taxes they pay is not gonna affect their lifestyle. But let me go back to the part-time workers. So that's actually$14,000 a year. So I gotta believe they still should be able to qualify for Medicaid.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 20:31

I don't know

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 20:32

I don't know the threshold either. Yeah, I don't, but I mean that's, that's poverty level though.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 20:37

it is,

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 20:38

Yeah. One of the conversations that people have is that it breaks up the family dynamic by having an individual who's not married so they can get the benefit. But if you had a head of household who's getting$14,000 and you were supporting a family of three or family of four, that's got to qualify them for SNAP and Medicaid.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 21:00

You would think?

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 21:01

would think so, but

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 21:02

Yeah.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 21:03

don't, again the big bundle of bull, I don't know.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 21:07

Yeah.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 21:07

We will see what happens. We'll see what happens after the midterms.'cause that's when most of the people will be affected.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 21:13

That'll be the general election at that point, because the midterms, got pushed back Beyond is past that. It's, yeah.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 21:21

the general election fascists in chief can't run again

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 21:24

right.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 21:25

you know that it is what it is he's done his, what he is gonna do and move on.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 21:30

Do you wanna talk clean energy or border security?

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 21:34

Clean energy.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 21:35

All right. So the clean energy provision, the bill largely terminates many tax incentives from the 2022 Inflation Reduction Act for clean energy, electric, vehicles, and energy efficiency. It specifically repeals the methane tax and aims to increase domestic oil and gas development. Let me go down to, how it impacts Michigan energy policy and environmental regulations. Clean energy rollbacks. The bill largely terminates many federal tax incentives, as I stated. This has significant implications for Michigan, which has a stated goal of achieving 100% clean energy by 2040 and a strong automobile industry investing heavily in EVs. So the EV market impact the elimination of federal tax credits for EV purchases up to$7,500 for new 4,000 for use could slow the adoption of EVs in Michigan and potentially impact the state's significant investments in EV manufacturing and charging infrastructures, some in the automotive industry. Expressed concern that this gives an advantage to foreign EV manufacturers. Renewable energy projects, utilities in Michigan may slow their investments and renewable energy projects, wind and solar due to the accelerated timelines to qualify for tax credits, potentially prolonging reliance on fossil fuels and making it harder for Michigan to meet its own clean energy targets. And then now they're saying here, higher energy costs. Some analysis suggests a bill could increase average annual electricity costs for Michigan households by over a hundred dollars initially rising to 230 annually within a decade.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 23:21

Drill, baby drill.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 23:23

That's what they're saying.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 23:24

That's what your president is saying.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 23:25

And ain't no federal lands too specifically, because, that's untapped resources.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 23:31

Yeah.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 23:33

All right. Go ahead Mike Miller. Lay it out.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 23:35

I like what Mike says.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 23:36

I know, right. Gotta grip your seat when He about to come with it.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 23:42

far as Michigan is concerned, and, the, auto manufacturers, let me start

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 23:46

Yeah.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 23:48

And I'm gonna specifically go with Ford who Has said, yeah, ain't turning back. They have already made the commitment go to an all electric fleet by whatever year that is, that they had. And has made something similar. Human beings, we, we don't go back. We are not going backwards. can't legislate backwardness. It's been shown time and time again, and I don't wanna jump ahead to our next subject, but this ties right into it. Fossil fuels are a thing of the past. We have to move forward. We are accelerating climate change by producing gas vehicles and using coal to, generate electricity. We now know our science has been advanced that far, that we don't have to do that anymore, so in Michigan specifically, what happens here, happens everywhere. What happens to the water happens to you. So if our fossil fuels are. Causing more pollutants in the water just by, the manufacturing process of fossil fuels we can't continue to do this Al Gore's, right? We now know this today. This is a

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 25:13

You mean

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 25:13

He didn't drop Al Gore's name, did he?

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 25:16

the creator of the internet?

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 25:18

yeah. The creator of the internet. Was right. You know, all the scientific studies have shown that yes, fossil fuels have accelerated what's going on, gonna have to stop doing that. You can't, move forward, the rest of the world has already done this. We can isolate ourselves in America and say, okay, we are just gonna continue to produce, gas powered vehicles and, use coal to produce electricity get rid of credits for clean energy, but ultimately we have to do it. He can try, but ultimately, you know, the world has moved forward. We're gonna have to do it.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 25:59

But Mike you're saying we have to do it. So what do you mean by we, because the private industry is not gonna run. Take that and run, hit the deck running with that. And now we're saying the federal government is dialing back, so

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 26:13

Yeah.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 26:13

but it's not a choice. When I say we, I mean the United States

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 26:17

Yeah.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 26:18

the other countries have already done it. We'll be the only country still trying to produce, fossil fuel, powered vehicles and fossil fuels for energy that's old. And science has already advanced us. Trust the science. That's what I'm saying, P trust the science

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 26:40

I follow you, my friend.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 26:41

people. The MAGA people don't believe in science. And even if they do, and even if they do, it's really for them more about the almighty dollar. When you got a president or fascist in chief, as you say, that says real baby drill. That's everything we've been trying to go away from. Remember, he won the election based on making America great again. Making America great again. Had nothing to do with the future. It had everything to do with the past. And so he is rolling everything back. And so as we tried to take one step forward, he's gonna push us 10 steps back. We're gonna have to walk that back down when we have another administration that understands everything you said.'cause I agree with you a hundred percent, but unfortunately in this country you can legislate against what's right.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 27:27

Yeah.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 27:27

do it all the time. They've done it all the time. I think right now that bill on face pushes us back. But it just puts more money into the coffers or the billionaires, the fascist in chief, I like that term. I think I'm gonna start using it and his billionaire buddies, because everything he does is transactional. he does is geared towards the 1%. Everybody else be damned because let's face it, even if those things that you said impact the common person or the middle class or poor person, there's always a way out when you have billions of dollars.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 28:00

Right.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 28:01

And so what Trump is saying, even in my lifetime, my limited lifetime, because I think he's 79 or 80 or whatever his age is, he old as hell. I don't mean that necessarily in years, just his old mindset. He's pushing us backwards. If you were sitting at a congressional meeting you were espousing your viewpoints, anybody who had common sense would be nodding. Yeah, you're right. That's what I was doing as you were talking. I was like, yeah, Mike, that all sounds good. And you're right, we shouldn't go backwards, but you've got a president who's definitely knocked us back years, not a year. They're saying it's gonna be tough or difficult to even get back to where we were. When this is all said and done, and we get a chance to, implement some new legislation to go back in the right direction. The deck is stacked and I'm typically an optimist, but seeing what I'm seeing makes me feel absolutely pessimistic because there are other issues that outside of this ugly bill, it impacts all of us but mostly people who are middle class, or let me put it this way, who are less than billionaires, right?

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 29:11

Yeah.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 29:11

Or

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 29:11

Yeah.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 29:12

wealthy. And so I agree with you, Mike. I'm not discounting what you said. I'm not even disagreeing with it. I just think that the playbook, 2025 all of this and they're running it to a t. And I think you or Mike said that they may be even like 50% through that playbook. it's, what, what are we, three, four months in.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 29:33

Yeah.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 29:33

We got three and a half years to go. God forbid how much further back we can go. But you're right. We, need to get away those forms of energy. It's just that it's not profitable for the billionaires. They're rallied against it. Remember, they're the ones who got'em into office. They're the ones who finance the campaign. They're the ones who are benefiting or getting their return on their investment.'cause really what it was, in an investment to make sure that party did, everything that they wanted them to do. And it's happening. You see it, it's happening every day.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 30:04

This is what from the billionaire's perspective, they are just putting a squeeze on the country until all the resources are gone.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 30:13

yes.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 30:14

And we are gonna be left holding the bag with the higher, debt and the higher taxes that are about to come about. Gonna be left holding the bag

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 30:22

Less spending power,

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 30:24

Yeah. Yeah.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 30:25

The haves and the have nots.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 30:26

It's a scary situation because our dollar could just tank and we can't afford anything because

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 30:33

It's tanking time as we speak

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 30:35

the value of our dollar globally.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 30:38

Absolutely.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 30:38

Okay.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 30:39

has gone up substantially in a short period of time, and it's just beginning. I can't even fathom next year. Two years from now what we're gonna be paying. They like to talk about eggs, right? And how expensive eggs are. you better celebrate the cost of eggs right now.'cause in a couple of years you're gonna be crying even more you might not even eat eggs anymore. I'm just saying. You talk about the value of the dollar.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 31:01

Yeah.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 31:01

Go ahead.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 31:02

you, when you have a, it was on the news this morning, car payments are now a thousand dollars a month, the average. That's like the floor A thousand. I'm like, I can't imagine paying a thousand dollars a month for a car

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 31:19

can't wrap my around it.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 31:21

Are you kidding me?

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 31:23

wrap my.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 31:24

Really?

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 31:25

paying that much for a car, how much are you paying for living space?

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 31:27

Exactly. That's why he said, that's why he said, you know, living expenses are through the roof. That's why, people can't afford housing. You know, so all this reform around affordable housing, housing is not gonna be affordable in the United States. When the Chinese came and bought up all these properties and, they're managed by companies that are ultimately owned by the Chinese.'cause they were flying in loads of these people into California and they were buying up everything they could. And now all they do is rent'em and lease'em. None of those properties. So they, yeah the housing costs, and they did this all over the country. The housing cost is just astronomical. You own a home, you doing well. I'm thinking about Airbnb out this house. Get more, and pay rent somewhere and getting more for this house. Way more than I'm paying in rent.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 32:13

Yeah.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 32:14

Shoot.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 32:15

Tom, I know you were going in a certain direction in terms of your questions and what you really wanted to speak about. All of it's pertinent and relative,

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 32:22

It is,

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 32:22

Did you have something else that you were thinking about keying on because, renewable energy or climate change, that is just something that's going to impact us for years to come?

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 32:35

Going back to the fact that if the private industry is not gonna take it and run with it, and the federal government is dialing back in particular vehicles, we don't have the infrastructure, we don't have for charging.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 32:50

Oh, you know,

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 32:51

so how do we get to the point where we're like China and we have a infrastructure that's keeping on what the production of vehicles?

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 33:01

It takes time. It is keeping up with the production of vehicles now. I don't hear any I don't hear anybody. Well, it's not that I don't hear it. But you can get a charging station at your home now. I mean? You can charge a and the life for the battery, the charge is about 300, 350 miles.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 33:22

kind of average.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 33:23

Yeah, that's the same as a tank of

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 33:25

No, it's not. No.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 33:27

I,

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 33:28

You have cars now that's 400 miles. I'm waiting for it to be 500 miles before I invest.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 33:32

But you also have batteries saying Go 800 miles. They're just not in every car right now.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 33:38

I was gonna say, I get 400 miles to a tank,

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 33:41

Yeah.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 33:41

over 400 miles to a tank.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 33:43

Yeah.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 33:43

But I was gonna say, Tom, just as an aside, imagine only being able to go 350 miles for the trip to dc

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 33:51

And then,

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 33:52

a charging station It's available long trips. Long trips are going to be tough.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 33:58

Yeah.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 33:58

you get to the charging station, it's not like a gas station where you just, you pull up and gas up. Wait and hope that you don't have to wait too long'cause somebody's already got that station.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 34:08

Right. Yeah.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 34:09

That was an issue for many, but Elon Musk says he's going to start American Party or something to that effect that's gonna combat some of this nonsense. And this ugly bill hurt him too. It hit him in a place where, that supplement he was getting from the government for his electric cars is gonna go away.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 34:25

And

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 34:25

reduced.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 34:26

he had a company that was helping people put those charging stations in their homes, right?

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 34:30

Yes, it

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 34:31

Yeah. Yeah.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 34:32

it did.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 34:33

And the tax incentive is gone for that. So where's the financial motivation for people to do that to purchase a car,

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 34:41

it's slowed down, like you said, but ultimately, again, commitment has already been made. Ford has already changed over, GM has already pretty much changed over,

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 34:55

Didn't Mary go to the president and saying, okay, basically what are you doing? I mean, and then didn't GM stop

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 35:02

it's so much to produce

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 35:06

right.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 35:06

and in engineering you're not gonna be able to, you can't turn back now. You can't turn back. He can try and legislate it, but at some point that legislation is gonna say, okay, no dude, we can't do this anymore. People are moving forward with, people are gonna drive that. The market is gonna

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 35:24

Well, I was gonna say that Mark is going to have to be

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 35:26

But yeah, that's what I was going, the market is gonna drive it. People are gonna drive it because, That's what always happens. Horse and buggy and cars, you know, gas car vehicles. People were going, I'm never gonna do that. I can feed my horse, give him some hay, some water. He'll take me all day and do this and do that.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 35:50

charging stations.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 35:52

Yeah. So, ultimately Tom, you were saying, what's the incentive? People are the incentive, they're going to dictate, what the market is gonna do.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 36:02

I like that.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 36:03

As the younger generations, as more people buy electric because they're gonna see that, yeah, it costs more, but you don't have any oil changes. You don't have to do all this maintenance. You know what I mean? All these tuneups and this,

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 36:17

I have an argument for that, Mike, because young people don't wanna drive. A lot of'em aren't getting their license. They don't mind ride sharing,

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 36:27

Are

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 36:27

I saw,

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 36:28

share are gonna be electric

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 36:29

yeah, but it is not gonna be the millions of cars coming across the production line for those though, either,

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 36:37

but guys, let's be serious. Now we're back to who's paying a thousand dollars a month To purchase a vehicle? So now how many people are gonna even be able to afford, whether it be gas or electric?

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 36:49

Yeah.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 36:50

So then what happens to the market? Does that drive prices down? Does supply and demand dictate, that would drive prices down? You've Got building costs, that's escalating the cost. Do the corporations say we're willing to give in so that we can move some of these vehicles?

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 37:04

Right.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 37:05

You are right.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 37:05

All right, so let's go on. Immigration and border security. The border of wall construction is gonna include 46$0.5 billion Capacity expansions, allocates of$45 billion. Ice funding and personnel is another$30 billion

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 37:26

Whew.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 37:26

With an estimation of about hiring 10,000 officers. I don't understand this whole process of asylum fee. Seeing that, part of the process of trying to come in here legally imposes a minimum a hundred dollars fee for those seeking asylum down from an initial house proposal of one 1000 due to parliamentary rulings. And then they're gonna block healthcare access, block access to taxpayer fund health benefits for undocumented immigrants. Going back to the border wall being, finished, that's the estimation.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 38:02

finished.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 38:03

That's the estimation. But actually somebody, on the hill said that, okay, we're giving you$46.5 million, but you're not gonna finish it with the border wall. You're not gonna finish it with that.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 38:13

said. That's

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 38:14

That's not enough money to finish it.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 38:17

I'm gonna leave it alone.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 38:17

Don't leave it alone. Go with it.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 38:21

46 billion. What kinda wall is that?

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 38:25

What kind of wall is it?

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 38:26

And then the additional funding for, immigration, ice agents and border protection. What are you so scared of?

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 38:39

I think it's a travesty.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 38:40

yeah, if America's so great. And America is great.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 38:44

It is great.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 38:45

is not great. I love this country. I always have. I just want it to be

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 38:49

Yes.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 38:50

So when people protest or say things seem to be against the government, they're not against the government. They just want things to be better. That's all. American as it gets. All love this country. We all love democracy. We all want things to be better. So these people that are coming here, by any means necessary, they want to live here too. They want work, they want democracy. They want to live in a better society. Yes, I understand the legality of, doing things the right way.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 39:27

The right way.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 39:28

But he seems to be scared of something.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 39:33

Well,

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 39:33

lot of people seem to be just so terrified. What are you so terrified of?

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 39:38

my

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 39:39

so

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 39:39

How does, when you look at most immigrants, How do they look?

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 39:44

People of color.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 39:46

Well, no. No. Okay. Alright. Let me, let me I'm glad you said that.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 39:51

Come with it.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 39:52

I just do not believe that every immigrant, and we know that's true. Every immigrant is not of color.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 40:01

Right?

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 40:02

Those that are crossing the southern border are, What about all of the illegal immigrants that are here that are not of color? Are we deporting any of them?

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 40:17

doubt it.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 40:19

You can't tell me that there are not a couple of million illegal immigrants who are not of color that are living here and aren't really worried about ICE agents because they walk freely simply because of the color of their skin.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 40:41

They can assimilate.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 40:42

They can assimilate and, unless ICE is keeping track of them, can go to work and do whatever they heck they need to do to live and citizen. I don't see any of them. Every person I see being deported seems to be of color.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 40:58

Absolutely.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 40:59

what I see. So I would like to see some of the news agencies look at the racial breakdown. Who's being deported. You know what I mean? How many Y, ZA, B, C, dfs, all of them. What percentage are being deported and what percentage are here illegally?'cause I'm sure that there is some count of that somewhere,

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 41:26

Well, even if you come here legally, you still can be here illegally because if your visa expires,

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 41:32

that's what

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 41:32

Your student visa or working visa, if those expire, you're here illegally And

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 41:39

me, me interject and just say that, I'm maybe going against the grain. I really don't have a problem with having a legals held to account. We're not talking about disre, disrupting families and brutalizing people in the way that they're doing it, particularly people of color. Like you said, Mike, there. Caucasians or whites who also, are here illegally. But I think that, if we're keeping it real there has been for years, a lot of people, whether they be people of color or white, just as many if not more, but I don't know.'cause there's not a number out there that I've seen are here and they're not handling their business. Almost to Tom's point earlier, you're going to do it, do it right. If there was a way to make people come to the table and fess up, give'em some kind of leniency, giving them an opportunity to correct whatever it is. If I need to get my paperwork right, I'll get my paperwork right. But illegal means illegal for a reason.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 42:41

Right.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 42:42

know, even though the president don't feel like he's accountable to any laws, I can't drive around without a driver's license, you know what I'm saying? I just can't go break into somebody's house or a store you have to respect the laws. So to that extent, people should be held to account, should you be deported to a country that you're not even familiar with or from, should you be deported at all? You should have due process, which means that now you have to address the fact that you didn't renew your visa or that you're here illegally. You're gonna have to, make it right, or you will be deported because most of those people aren't gonna go away of their own accord. When you focus on people of color specifically, it comes from a place that's really racist or the appearance of racism, because now you're trying to get rid of people of color and you're totally disrespecting and not giving them any due process, which you're supposed to do. But now the Supreme Court is saying. As the president, you can dictate whatever you want to dictate. And if you want to send these people to another country that they've never been to, even though it's not safe, you had a right to do that. So I think that the whole focus of dealing with these individuals, I don't think that's so much as a wrong thing. I just think it's the way they're going about it. Because like I said, you have an avenue to come here, and if you would do it, then we shouldn't be able to just uproot you. But the laws are the laws and this, you know, the way things are going. You know, they talked about birthright citizenship. somebody posed a question, does that mean African Americans could be there to attempt to be revoked? we didn't come here of our own accord initially because we are all ancestors of somebody. If you go back to slavery. Then they weren't citizens initially. It begs the question, but the truth of that matter is, just to take it a step further, that means everybody here would have their citizenship revoked because the original people came

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 44:46

you.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 44:47

England, they were British.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 44:48

No, before

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 44:49

before them. Okay.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 44:50

no, they have to go too. Look, if you really wanna say the Native Americans, this

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 44:57

They don't have to go anywhere. They have the

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 44:59

right? Everybody else gotta go. If you

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 45:02

Gotta go.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 45:03

Under that, premise, everybody in this country would have to

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 45:08

Absolutely.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 45:09

But we were all born here. Our parents were born here, our grandparents were born here. Our great grandparents are born here. What it is. Is what it is. WI have plenty of people in my family who have fought for this country, including my

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 45:25

Absolutely.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 45:26

Who was an army ranger. I don't wanna hear it. I really

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 45:29

Huh?

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 45:29

hear anybody's crap about, oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, Tom. Woo.

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 45:36

Yeah. Yeah,

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 45:37

don't wanna hear anybody's crap about who belongs and who doesn't belong

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 45:41

yeah. But I, the only reason I went to that book, yes, go ahead.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 45:45

I understand that the immigrant process

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 45:47

Yes.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 45:47

policy and, but in my mind, and I'm just gonna say it, other people have said it. America always has and always will need, and in lieu of the word slaves, I'm going to use, it's underpaid people. We always have and always will need people that are underpaid and overworked. The immigrants that are here illegally that are working and being paid have to pay a, they still pay taxes, including social security

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 46:18

But do they pay federal taxes? I don't. They do. They pay federal.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 46:23

yes. The employer is required to take those taxes out of their paycheck, So they'll never collect a dime of that. The people that are here illegally will never collect a dime of that social security money they've been paying into all these years.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 46:39

Hmm.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 46:40

Are anybody saying, well, we gonna give you back that money? Nope. So you've paid into a system and you've worked, even though you're here illegally? I'm not. Like, Keith said you have a right to due process. So in my mind if there's a legal immigrant that's been here x amount of years that's working, doing everything right, the paperwork just isn't right. Give them an opportunity for the due process, Give them the To make it right. Snatch'em out of the field or snatch'em outta Walmart or Home Depot while they are working. Obviously those are not criminals. Those aren't the bad people that we claim that,

keith_1_07-07-2025_161349 47:25

yeah. It is not working for me.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 47:27

That, we claim we want to take, get out of the country. No, don't do that. Maybe arrest him and say, Hey, you have X amount of To appear in court. You gonna need an immigration lawyer.

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 47:39

Here's the whole thing with the whole bill. It talks about all these other things, but it doesn't talk about reform. And that's what you're talking about. That's what you're talking about, Mike. You're talking about basically reforming.

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 47:51

You're

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 47:51

But that's the crazy thing about this whole immigration part of the bill, that it doesn't give an opportunity for reform or improving the process. The bill focuses on everything to

michael-miller_1_07-07-2025_161349 48:06

To punish,

thomas_1_07-07-2025_161349 48:08

Yeah. For not to reform. Where is the, what's the mechanism for the improvement of the process? So who was it? One of these presidents back in the twenties I think it was, where they had immigration open and then they kind of froze it and then for 40 years they were trying to get it going again. So in 65 or something like that. They opened the doors again and that's when you start getting all these Jamaicans and Africans and Indians, Hait. Yeah. This influx of all these people coming into the country. And then now all of a sudden now they weren't gonna turn the spigot off again. And then created some kind of program where you had to have a working visa in order to come here. I don't know. Just with the process of all that going on, it didn't take any time to work on the improvement of the process of, immigration.

48:57

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